Cannabis & Adaptogens: New Science - Branding Bud Live Episode 39
THE SUMMARY
Adaptogens are known for their holistic effects, often promoting a sense of overall well-being. THC and other cannabinoids can also reduce stress, increase focus, energy, and appetite. Today, many products now combine the two. Join Branding Bud Live co-hosts David Paleschuck and Adriana Hemans, along with their guest, Scott Jennings, CEO and Founder of Pantry Food Co., as they discuss “Cannabis & Adaptogens: New Science”.
THE CO-HOSTS
David Paleschuck, Adriana Hemans
THE SPECIAL GUEST
Scott Jennings, CEO and Founder of Pantry Food Co.
THE TRANSCRIPT
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Welcome to Branding Bud Live, the live stream that’s 100% THC and 0% WTF. Every week we speak with business people about the business of cannabis. I’m David Paleschuck, founder of Branding Bud Consulting Group and author of the first book on cannabis branding. I’m joined by my co-host Adriana Hemans, Director of Marketing at Green Meadows and my BCF (Best Cannabis Friend). Hi Adriana!
ADRIANA HEMANS
Hi David. Thank you for that intro. I’m so excited to co-host the show with you. We’re bringing amazing guests from across the cannabis ecosystem to share their perspectives. My favorite thing about Branding Bud Live is that we focus on building community - and we encourage audience participation. It’s not just about us talking, it’s about all of us building something together. So feel free to drop your questions and/or opinions in the chat, and we’ll share them too.
DAVID PALESCHUCK
We’re here to build community, educate and entertain … so let’s jump into today’s show, "Cannabis & Adaptogens: New Science". Today, we’ll be chatting with Scott Jennings, CEO and Founder of Pantry Food Co. to better understand cannabis and adaptogens – and how they work together. Some of the topics we’ll cover are:
What are adaptogens, and how do they work?
Are there any specific adaptogens that complement cannabis particularly well?
Can combining adaptogens and cannabis enhance overall health benefits?
I’m super excited to chat with Scott today.
ADRIANA HEMANS
Me too!
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Let’s welcome, Scott Jennings.
SCOTT JENNINGS
Glad to be here. How you guys doing?
ADRIANA HEMANS
We’re great and excited about you being our guest. Tell us about yourself, Scott.
SCOTT JENNINGS
I've been an investor for about 15 plus years from New York and majored in finance. And I was just taught from an early age that you know, you have to understand money, right money, whether it's personal money or business, you know, numbers are very important. I worked on Wall Street for 10 of those years at Barclays Capital and Morgan Stanley. I owned a bar in New York City, which was a wild period of my life. And you know, most recently I crossed over to be an entrepreneur and an operator. I founded Pantry Food Co in 2019, and I've gone on to add a couple more businesses in my entrepreneur journey. I think that's a little bit about me and maybe just share more on the passion side is I've really learned that capitalism without a greater purpose is a little distasteful, you know, you just want to maximize your return. And so in my later years, as an investor, I've really fallen in love with impact investing, you know, how can we help people and the planet, while also making a good return for ourselves and our investors. And that's really led me to be very passionate about health and wellness. Health of the planet, health of the food that we eat. I can meet a random stranger and just be very passionate about how are they doing? Mental health, nutrition and muscle? How cannabis, how adaptogens can help them. And so I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to talk about this because it truly is one of my greatest passions, which is health and wellness.
DAVID PALESCHUCK
What are adaptogens, and how do they work?
SCOTT JENNINGS
There's a lot of definitions that float around. But something that I really isolated around adaptogens are plants that help people. They're natural substances that help the human body with balance and homeostasis. And while there may be some discussion around what exactly which plants qualify as an adaptogen. Is cannabis and adaptogen? Or mushrooms? Where's that line really drawn? For me, and for the simplicity of passing on education, it's plants with benefits that help promote balance and homeostasis.
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Not only are many of them mushrooms, but we can see there's Rhodiola rosea, there's ashwagandha, there's holy basil, there's quite a lot as I was doing some research, I never quite thought of them as adaptogens, I just thought of them as beneficial plants that had been long used in Arabic or traditional Chinese Eastern medicine. So it's, it's great to see that some of us Westerners are now paying attention to some of the things that have been used for 1000s of years relative to health and benefits.
SCOTT JENNINGS
One of the things that's interesting is that societies can forget certain medicines or certain practices. And, you know, one head scratcher, we always ask ourselves is How did they build the pyramids in Egypt? And did we lose the knowledge on how to do that at that time, and so these ancient medicines and, you know, healing plants, it's so exciting to connect with people in India, and in China, to talk about how these plants have been used for 1000s of years because we are still catching up. And there's a very rich history here.
ADRIANA HEMANS
How have adaptogens gained popularity in the health and wellness industry? And even more importantly, can you explain the potential benefits of combining adaptogens with cannabis?
SCOTT JENNINGS
I think that there's a push and a pull here. And, you know, I like to speak from my personal experience, but it's also something I've seen in the broader health and wellness community, which is a lot of a lot of the food or pharmaceuticals I have, have led to poor health. And so you have people growing up that are saying, Hold on, I want to take better care of my health. I see my parents and may not be in good health or I see Family not in good health. And, you know, America can get a little over indexed on here's a pill for everything. And so you have a natural resistance and something, you know, it's funny, I kick it around in my head to think about, you know, asking you to what do you think about brand, the brand of pharmaceuticals, because in the health and wellness community, I think we understand the value and the benefit there, but has it gone too far have they, you know, maybe not been as forthcoming as some of the side effects, and you have a push away from pharmaceuticals, and you have a pull towards plants, and plant medicine. And so the push is there, but then you have entrepreneurs and CPG companies, you know, popping up that are starting to incorporate more adaptogens into their products. And they're starting to educate consumers more about the benefits, right, like, like you were just saying, you're just getting up to speed, you're eating these, but now you're learning more, I'm still learning more, a lot of us are learning more. So I think it's a push in a bowl. And you know, a lot of my investing is done on looking at high growth trends. And I don't see adaption isn't adaptogens really going anywhere, I see us becoming more aware of what plants can do for the body, and the benefits they can provide. And I think, as one CPG advisor told me, this is part of the note better do better trend. And as you know that these plants can provide better benefits for your body to help us deal with such a complicated and taxing, you know, life and environment. I think that a lot of us are starting to want to put those more in our body and you're seeing it from small startups like us at Pantry. Now you're seeing it from large companies, like SmartWater with Ashwagandha. So there's a lot of movement in this space. And it's exciting to see it becoming, you know, more and more, I wouldn't say broadly mainstream, but it's definitely getting out of its niche and growing.
I think that, you know, I think that a lot of trends can have many fads in them. And there's a lot of unfortunate situations and trends where people can greenwash or take advantage. And that can hurt building trust with consumers and society. Right. And so you can just say cannabis, right, that story? Oh, I had 1000 milligram brownie. And, you know, I wanted to go to the hospital, you know, there's these bad stories out there that that hurt the evolution, right of society. And that's why it's so important to get to the truth, right, and back it up with research. And I think we're seeing that, you know, I think, you know, I hear from my nieces and nephews that are sub 10 years old, that they don't want sugar, right, you'll hear them being more conscious of sugar. So how does it go from a trend to more mainstream things just takes time, I think it takes these conversations in education, but I also really, really welcome more of the research behind this, you know, for these plants to be around for 1000s of years. Until it's still lacking research that's concerning to me. And I, you know, I get it, there's a conflict of interest here where, you know, a lot of research wants to be done in, you know, away from plant medicine around single, you know, products that can do a single benefit. You know, the body is very complex, and the benefits of these adaptogens are very complex, right. So, I welcome the research community to get involved, I welcome the government to, you know, funding these, you know, research studies so that we can get more a deeper understanding here. But I think that the trend is there. I don't think it's a trend that goes away in three years. I think it's something that as we as society continued to learn, we're just actually going back in history and do Bring what was mainstream for everybody in Arabic practice and just bring it forward now? And yeah, Jason had a good question over here. What are the basic benefits of for adaptions? listed in this slide? So I don't have the forum front of me. And I really, you know, Ashwagandha is one that I've studied more. And this is part of the challenge and the excitement, right? So when you look at adaptogens, and say, Well, what do they do? And you look at the research that's out there, or you talk to, you know, people in India with their Vedic practices, it's not and this is where it may contradict with pharma, it may not be a singular benefit, right? It may be really trying to help your body find balance and homeostasis, you say, well, wow, that's a bit loaded. What does that mean? Right. And it could be cellular health. It could be brain health, it could be hormonal, Hormonal Health. And so Ashwagandha is known to help with stress. Stress is like one of the biggest things for dealing with instance, in society. It's one of the main reasons I got into cannabis, you know, we're not sleeping, and, and we can't relax. And so having more ashwagandha in my diet, and cannabinoids for that matter, helped me relax, and it's healthier for me, right? I'm sure many of us know, the traditional way of relaxing was alcohol for decades, right? You'd have a glass of whiskey at the end of the day, or beer wine. And there's really, you know, more and more rhetoric that alcohol is just poison. There's no benefits. It's a facade. It's a fake, right. And then you look at plants, you look at Astrakhan and look at cannabis. Wow, there's medicinal benefits for relaxation, that not only are going to help you relax better, but it's going to have an underlying benefit on your body, unlike alcohol will mask and say you'll feel better and say you're relaxed. But really, it's going to you know, mess up your sleep. And then your sleep is foundational how often then there's that rinse and repeat cycle. So I don't have all of them. And research is still being done. But stress, cellular health, immune support, these are some of the benefits of adaptogens.
DAVID PALESCHUCK
It’s my understanding that Ashwagandha is supposed to help with lowering levels of cortisol and cortisol is the is really the “death hormone”, as they call it, you know, which, which leads to increasing fat on the body. And also is really created by stress. And I should say it increases fat and in stress, because it's when your body produces cortisol, it's putting you into the flavor of fight mode, which is not a good place to be. Because basically that shuts down most of your normal body functions such as digestion, and other things which relate to digestion, as well as others. So, again, you know, at least from what I've seen, the research is very broad. It's not targeted, like pharmaceuticals are, you know, which seems to be as you said earlier, you know, the magic bullet, you know, the pill that we could take, which, which immediately puts a specific symptom to bed. This seems to make the work more on the causes rather than on the symptoms but as Westerners we're always focused on the symptoms.
ADRIANA HEMANS
As we do every week, let’s jump into our first audience participation. Here we go …
Which mushroom is NOT an adaptogen?
A. Cordyceps
B. Turkey Tail
C. Reishi
D. None of the above
Audience. It's your chance to shine! That's right.
SCOTT JENNINGS
That’s a good one. I’m curious to see the answer.
ADRIANA HEMANS
The answer is: D. None of the above
DAVID PALESCHUCK
I think it's important here to mention that not all mushrooms are considered adaptogens. And, and you alluded to it earlier, Scott, you know, what's the criteria for an adaptogen? Again, so let's go through it being genuinely safe, non-toxic and normal therapeutic doses producing nonspecific states of resistance to stress and having a normalizing effect on physiology. So it's just interesting, as I started to do my research, immediately, I thought when I saw the three or four mushroom types, I thought, okay, all mushrooms must be adaptogens. But that's not the case. So, super interesting. Yeah. Well. So let's talk a moment about, you know, how can individuals incorporate both adaptogens and cannabis into their daily routine as an overall health regimen?
ADRIANA HEMANS
Are there any specific adaptogens that complement cannabis particularly well?
SCOTT JENNINGS
I would say you know; we really like ashwagandha. You know, Ashwagandha is great, we really like Lion's Mane, you know, some of the focuses that we look for our brain health, and we look for relaxation, right. And so ashwagandha and Lion's Mane really do touch on those. And so when we look at the data, whether it's talking to friends and family, or looking at cannabis data, or looking at CPG data for the last 30 years, you know, rest and relaxation are top of mind for consumers. And they're looking for ways to get there. And, you know, there's no silver bullet, you can't just take Astrakhan and you're going to feel better. But it's one tool in the toolbox that you're going to want in your body. And so for us, we've gone out of our way to pair ashwagandha lion's mane and cannabinoids together, so that they can get a more relaxed state. And so we can help people find better balance in their body to feel more comfortable to rest better, and to live a healthier life.
DAVID PALESCHUCK
How do adaptogens and cannabis interact in the body's endocannabinoid system?
SCOTT JENNINGS
I mean, man, is you're going to you hit it, we need more research, we really, really need more research and, you know, reminded me of like, how did we get here a cannabis, you know, moms had to do things for their kids that were illegal, because research wasn't there, and they weren't going to let their kids suffer anymore. Right? And so it's the lack of research and progression here has put, you know, consumers in a little bit of a risk because we are trying to progress something that I would have, you know, hoped my tax dollars want to write researching these, understanding it and progressing these, these plants in society and making them available.
So cannabis uniquely, as it was discovered in Israel connects directly to your endocannabinoid system. Adaptogens don't have that unique benefit. Right. So this is where I can understand how we made differentiate cannabis and adaptogens, where they're both plants that can help the human body. But cannabis connects directly in your endocannabinoid system, and adaptogens work to enhance your endocannabinoid system, but they don't connect directly with it. And as far as I can tell, I haven't seen a deeper research on how that's really happening. And so it's something that we pay attention to. And, you know, we look to civilizations that have been around for a lot longer to get the peer to peer feedback, while we continue to wait for research to you know, scientifically, you know, tell us what's really going on here.
ADRIANA HEMANS
How can individuals incorporate adaptogens and cannabis into their daily wellness routine?
SCOTT JENNINGS
I mean, I love this conversation. I love this question. Because it ladders up into just how, how do you know? How do you live holistically healthy, right? And, you know, a lot of people go to the end goal, right? Which is like, how do I, you know, how do I incorporate it all, but you have to take baby steps, right? And so, first, you have to, I think you have to have a plan, you know, if you don't plan your plan to fail, and so, a lot of people that say, Well, I'm going to eat healthy, but then they go out and they're lackadaisical about their lunch. And they just, you know, pick up a burger or pick up fast food, right? So, you know, it's not something that I did in my younger ages, I was really, you know, just moved through life and did not so much planning around my health or my food intake. Now, I'm very focused about it. If I don't drink enough water, you know, I have to plan it. I have to I put a glass of water glass by the sink to make sure it's there. I have a glass right when I wake up right at lunch, mil a day, I really plan to make sure I get enough water with adaptogens. You know, we in my household, we have a supplement intake, right? We look at the week, and we say what nutrients do we need in our body? What adaptogens do we want our body? What supplements do we want our body that way we make sure our household has the food dapped logins cannabinoids in the pantry, right, which is what we call it here in our house. And we go in there and we make sure that we have that. If we don't have it and we don't plan then then we won't do it. And as I started studying, more consumer behaviors, I started to learn more about a disciplinarian. And a disciplinarian isn't just somebody that on a Tuesday says, oh, go to the gym today and not tomorrow. A disciplinarian is somebody that plans out their week. Right? They have to know when are the kids going to school? When am I going to get my protein intake? When am I going to get my hydration? When am I going to get my adaptogens so for us, we plan out our food. You know Monday through the weekend, we are definitely some areas in there for, you know, some flexibility and some freedom to maybe, you know, go outside of a regiment. But the basic here is if you want to get them in your body, you should have it in your household, and then you should start to form a habit. The best thing is start to form a habit to make sure you know when you're going to be taking these on a daily basis. At the beginning you'll miss sometimes you'll miss some days. But as you develop a habit, just like anything else, it's like riding a bike. It ends up becoming secondhand nature, you don't even think about it. I walked by the pantry in the morning and I need some supplements. I take them at night. I take my ashwagandha and I take my cannabis, which helps me relax. I take it right by right before I start cooking dinner. Right It helps me relax helps me get into my body and it's my transition period from work. to cooking with the wife and starting to relax. So I'd say you need to plan, you want to start to create healthy habits, you want to start stacking healthy habits on top of each other, and don't get frustrated, it's all part of the process. None of us are perfect. People fall off the bike all the time. But as we look towards longevity, and as we look to have a healthier and happier life, we have to be very mindful of our habits, because they're either going to accelerate us in one way, and not the good way or accelerate us in living a healthier, happier life. And I want everybody to live a healthier, happier life. And if we talk outside of this, I'm glad to share more of my habits and how we stack them here. And, you know, I think it's contagious, you know, be mindful of who you surround yourself with. Because I think Dave and Adriana, they take care of themselves, we're talking about running, and I bet if we see each other outside of here, you know, we would be influencing each other, to have better, healthier habits. And so I'm going on a bit of a rant here, but I love the question. And I think everybody should take that step. You know, we talked about it with cannabis, how do you get cannabis? How do you get people to know that cannabis can be helpful? You have to take that step, right, so many people are on the sideline that are suffering from pain or cancer, and they're not taking that baby step to see if there's something there. And so, you know, education conversations like this, make people aware. But then there has to be action because there is something called a knowing and doing get, a lot of people may know to take Ashwagandha or that cannabis can help, but not a lot of people may do it. And so action over, you know, overthinking it. And anyway, that, that that's how I would get it, you know, into your regimen into your schedule into your plan, and start to build a healthier and happier life.
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Are there any potential risks or contraindications when using adaptogens and cannabis together?
SCOTT JENNINGS
Yeah, well, you know, we are this educational purposes, right? Where there's there are definitely risks. I mean, I didn't know there was risk to breathing exercises and drinking too much water. I mean, that was eye opening to me. So absolutely. There are risks here. When you talk about the risk reward, there's definitely, you know, more reward than risk. And so you're safer to experiment here. But no, I mean, look, if you smoke a joint before dinner, and there's nothing wrong with that, you know, a lot of people are starting to, instead of smoke two joints, they'll pair it with an animal, right? A healthy animal. And so an adaptogenic, healthy edible paired with a joint is not a bad idea, either. And so it's really meeting yourself where you are. Because if the task is too daunting, and you think like, oh my god, how am I going to do this? You're never going to do it. Right. And so it's just taking that first step, but it is realized this here. And you know, we should be mindful dose.
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Are there any recommended dosages or guidelines for using adaptogens and cannabis together?
SCOTT JENNINGS
Personalized medicine, at the end of the day, we are different. And the plants are different. You can grow ashwagandha right next to each other, you can grow the same cannabis plant right next to each other, and they're different. So it's, it's taking that ownership, you know, companies, and brands like pantry are trying to be there for you and provide this for you. But we interact with our consumers a lot, right? Because we want that feedback. And then we interact with blood panel data, right, we want to start looking at blood panel data to see the differences on that level or surveys, right? It has to be an integrated conversation with consumers versus we're all the same take 10 milligrams a day. If it doesn't work, double the dose that's playbook is not, you know, personalized, that's pharmaceutical one-on-one.
ADRIANA HEMANS
Let’s jump into our second audience participation. Shall we?
True or False? US cannabis consumers are more likely to drink adaptogenic teas, compared to the general US population.
Audience: It’s your turn to shine! OK, let’s reveal the answer.
True.
5% of US cannabis consumers drink adaptogenic teas.
2% of the general US population drink adaptogenic teas.
And while you wouldn't think that's so much of a difference. It's actually two and a half times the difference. So when you think about it, you know, perhaps the cannabis community or cannabis consumers are more in tune with plant medicine.
ADRIANA HEMANS
And if you're extrapolating across the whole US population, that's a really significant number.
DAVID PALESCHUCK
How can cannabis users identify the right adaptogens for their specific needs?
SCOTT JENNINGS
I would say that nor only starts with, you know, problems solution, right? So few people will say, Hey, I'm feeling really good, and I want more of my body. Normally it's people say, you know, I'm concerned about my cognitive ability, I'm concerned about my stress, right? And we want to improve that, right? And so they'll look and they'll say, Oh, look at this, you know, there's a new consumer brand that that's promoting that, right. You know, through COVID, we, you know, I'm not a big pharmaceutical taker, and through COVID, I enjoyed pantries, good day bites, and I wasn't alone. And because cannabis has antiviral properties in it, and the lion's mane can help boost your immune system as well. And so we saw a lot of people turning to our edibles, especially the COVID being a respiratory issue, you know, I have no problem with the flour, and I love good flour and consuming that method when I do, but with the respiratory issue, people were looking for this. So it really depends on where they are in their journey. But a lot of people reached out to us over COVID. And they said, I've been taking those good day bites, ginger, cinnamon turmeric, Lion's Mane CBD THC. I mean, it was a lot of good stuff in there. And they said, it really helped them get through COVID. And that, you know, that was great for us. So that was just a case study that we saw recently. But, you know, we also get a lot of people and this is just such a huge issue. It's sleep, and a lot of sleep products on the market pair, you know, call it CBN was sugar. And that's just what are we doing? Right? So pantry really went out of its way raw cacao adaptogens and cannabinoids together, and consumers that haven't been able to sleep, and they'd say, their words, not mine, I've tried every sleep product on the market and nothing's work and your night bites really work. You know, I think those are the journeys people are on, I think that on their journey, they're going to find products in a category that are supposed to help, but then they're going to find those nuances within those categories. And it goes down to dose, right? And I think we want to figure that out, too. Because you look at some of the products, it's okay, Ashwagandha is in there. But then how much? And then how much do I need to make an effect and your body may be different than somebody else. So it's really looking at the consumer journey, and seeing what may lead them to adaptogens and trying to be there to fill that void when they're looking for that solution. And then optimize from there to make it even better.
ADRIANA HEMANS
Are there any specific adaptogen-cannabis blends or products available in the market?
DAVID PALESCHUCK
What are the key takeaways for listeners interested in exploring the world of cannabis and adaptogens for better health and wellness?
SCOTT JENNINGS
I think it's very important for us to understand that. So while we do want more research, and we look to research, these aren't things that were here for 10 years and gone. These are things that have been around for 1000s of years. And they've been I don't know, you know, downplayed or ignored or not promoted as well, or in essence of cannabis. And I agree with Rick here cannabinoids. You know, they just haven't been mainstreaming, right, but they've survived 1000s of years. Right. So I think it's important for people to remember that that rich history is there. And it's one of the reasons we incorporated adaptions as well, because we don't want to, you know, miss, promote or miss market benefits, right. And with adaptogens having such a rich history, we can leverage that history, to bring that forward to try to help consumers. The second thing is, I would say it's, it's its nature, it's some of the best medicine, I mean, nature can really be some of the best medicine for the human body. And I think when you remember that these things have passed the test of time and you remember that it's nature's medicine. I think that can give you a lot of comfort that the human body and nature may be more correlated than we think, and getting more of nature in our body. Some of these plants can be very helpful in helping us deal with, you know, the stress and the chatter challenges in life. And the third thing is that they're available that they're here. This isn't a dream state, this isn't I wish they were here, you go to pantry, food co.com. We've got a lot of information on there. It's accessible in California. And we're working our way to make it more accessible to more people. And again, I'll never say we're perfect. We love feedback, we're going to continue to get better, because our number one goal is trying to help people live healthier and happier lives.
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Thanks, Scott. That was fantastic. We thank you for what you do and the value you bring to the industry. As always, that was the fastest 45 minutes of my week!
SCOTT JENNINGS
Thank you both David and Adriana!
ADRIANA HEMANS
Thank you, Scott!
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Next week we'll be chatting about “Cannabis vs Marijuana” as we explore how precise language plays a vital role in accurate cannabis taxonomy and consumer education. Additionally, we'll address the complexities of cannabis, and examine how these terms can shape policy decisions and the future of legalization. Staying well-informed on these nuances is paramount in advocating for progressive reforms.
ADRIANA HEMANS
We just dropped a link in the chat for next week’s episode. Hit that button to register so you don’t miss it. If you miss us in the meantime, you can re-watch today’s episode, or any of our previous episodes, on our LinkedIn page, Branding Bud Live, or on our YouTube channel. Please give us a follow on LinkedIn to stay on top of everything Branding Bud Live. Please check us out there if you've missed any of our previous episodes.
DAVID PALESCHUCK
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DAVID PALESCHUCK
And don’t forget to check out cannabis’s best-kept secret at www.brandingbud.com
Thank you everybody!
ADRIANA HEMANS
Thanks for joining everyone. Please follow us!
DAVID PALESCHUCK
Thank you everybody. We'll see you next week. And don't forget to check out cannabis is best kept secret at www.brandingbud.com. Until then!
ADRIANA HEMANS
Bye
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